Sunday, March 23, 2008

Interview: Career Suicide

Okay it’s been six years and a couple of months, I suppose. You guys were partially to blame, especially you Martin, for getting Studio 3 up and running. It was your suggestion to bring HAYMAKER here, downstairs. Do you remember this?
Martin (M): It was?
Yeah it was.
M: Oh. Pat on my back.
Both CAREER SUICIDE and FUCKED UP were the early guinea pigs for the Studio 3 sessions. Catch us up on six years...
Jonah (J): A few tours, half a dozen records, and a whole lot of maturity.
That’s the Reader’s Digest version. Okay.
J: You can tell the difference between then and now.
Facial Hair?
J: No, no I mean just the sound. It’s still loud and fast but it’s just different now, you know?
M: How tired of life Jonah sounds. Completely unanimated. (laughter)
J: This used to be lit fluorescently. It was a really harsh environment and you had to act a certain way, with the way the CIUT studio looked. Now it’s lit with a mahogany desk lamp that looks like it came from the library of congress.
M: Where is Unkie Doug when you need him?
J: Yeah really.
And Jonah had made a CAREER SUICIDE shirt special for the last session.
J: Yeah. Apparently I was supposed to wear it again. I would have. I’ve been looking for an excuse to wear that shirt since 2002.
I thought you were going to break it out.
J: Stephe it was you that I promised I’d wear it.
Yeah, ‘cause I was talking to you about it.
M: When we were supposed to play here two months ago and we didn’t show up.
There it is.
M: There it is.
Dave (D): You can see that out in radio land?
J: CAREER SUICIDE has always been a band with faces for radio...clothes for radio.
M: You should have seen Jonah today.
J: Yeah my new thing now is belly ‘T’s’
I heard you talking about that earlier. Okay tell us about the line-up changes I think Martin and Jonah remain the constants. Initially you started up with Noah on bass and Eric on Drums. I think Noah played the first session right?
M: Yeah he did.
And Eric was on drums.
M: But Jonah and I, as you know, are not original members of CAREER SUICIDE so there are no original members.
You guys are the only members that remain constant.
M: No, ‘cause when the band started there was a CAREER SUICIDE show in Toronto that neither Jonah nor I were part of the band for.
Is that right?
M: Yeah I lived in Vancouver and Jonah was, I don’t know what he was doing.
J: I was in the arctic.
Who was in the band at that point?
M: Marc Pesci, Mark Garrett, Noah Gadke was the singer.
J: Mark Garrett of TEEN CRUD / BUSH LEAGUE. Mark Pesci of Mark Pesci and Eric Smith was playing drums.
M: So, Mark Garrett was not in the band.
And it lives on... with no original members.
M: Somehow.
J: I may have overused this metaphor but it’s like when a dog has such bad plaque that all the teeth should have fallen out but the teeth are held in place anyway by the bad plaque. That’s like what CAREER SUICIDE is. Martin and I being the plaque.
Okay, so take us through the line-up changes. Who has been in the band since?
M: Oh my god. You got three hours? (laughter)
We do. No, not really but..but there’s been a few, no?
M: I think we’ve had twenty... we counted how many drummers we’ve had. We had. No, you know we’ve gone through the line-up changes, as of three years ago we were at or near twenty.
Twenty drummers?
M: Err..and bass players.
J: You have to...That depends how sensitive your filter is for ‘having a drummer’ like more than one show? More than one song?
J: So if you count all the people that have been in the band for like a few bars...
Okay so who are some of the mainstays that were in the band?
J: Eric, Jesse Parker.
M: Noah Gadke.
J: Oh we’re doing just drummers? Eric Smith our first drummer was the mainstay. He was on our first LP he was on the first session, although he never did a tour with us.
M: He did Europe! He re-joined us for Europe.
J: Sorry. That’s a pretty important tour.
That’s Okay.
M: Jonah’s had a few cannolis tonight so he’s a little slow. He had an Italian Easter dinner.
J: Eric was with us in Europe, an important tour because that was the first record that we had out. Really, it was on that tour and also that was the first time we got…
That was the Ugly Pop release right?
J: No that was the Kangaroo single that came out at that time. It was a trio of things like three records that were recorded almost a year apart. The Ugly Pop 12” which was recorded in 2002, the Kangaroo single which was recorded in very early 2003 and the “SARS” single all coincided for that tour.
M: We didn’t have the “SARS” EP on that tour.
J: Didn’t we?
M: No.
No, that one came out later didn’t it?
J: It was an important time.
M: Jonah has lived a hard life for the last six years. Lots of drugs, lots of drinking.
J: You kids don’t know shit.
M: Brain cells are a little gone, just bear with him.
J: Well Eric left the band. We got a new drummer who played with us for a couple of years and we had a new bass player.
M: If Miller were here he’d interrupt Jonah right now and say it’s completely irrelevant. The final and forever line-up of the band is here right now; Matt Miller on bass, Dave Brown on drums, Jonah Falco on guitar and this guy on vocals.
Okay, how did Matt and Dave come to join the band?
M: Well let’s let Dave tell the story of how he joined the band.
Let’s tell the story.
D: Actually I ended up joining the band through coming here, to the radio show. I was here one night and I was being very bitter and jaded and I mentioned to Andy from THE ENDLESS BLOCKADE that I was thinking about moving back to the Maritimes. My six months I had spent in Toronto were not exactly all that I had hoped for. The rays of sunshine had clouded over and I wasn’t doing anything. I didn’t really have a good job. I wasn’t playing in any bands and he happened to mention that CAREER SUICIDE were looking for a drummer or were you know, in need of somebody, a mainstay I guess you could say. Anyways I sent off an e-mail to Jonah who at the time was a regular DJ at the show here... or a regular host. We sent a couple of e-mails back and forth and at first it was sort of “Yeah, I don’t really know we’ll keep you in mind” and I get another e-mail back and it’s like: “Yeah, well ... Maybe, maybe we can have you do you know the occasional Toronto show” and then it was like “Hey yeah, do you want to come out and practice with us and stuff and everything...?” and it just went from there. We practiced and it turned out to be pretty good so the rest is history.
And how long ago was that?
D: It was three years ago. A little over three years so.
Okay, and how did Matt join the band.
J: Matt came from a dream, really.
A dream?
M: Matt Miller is a guy I’ve known since I lived out in Vancouver for a year, back in ’98.
Is he from Vancouver or was he just..?
M: No he’s from I think he was born in Manitoba, grew up in Sault Ste Marie. He was a Weedman out in Vancouver. He did landscaping. The first time I met him was at a supermarket and he was playing Frisbee with a pie.
And you knew he had to be in the band.
M: Yeah, and long story short I became friends with him when I lived out there for a year. I moved back there right before CAREER SUICIDE really got started for half a year and Miller and I started a band out there called EMO DESTROYER and he moved to Ottawa.
Was he always into punk or did you get him into punk?
M: No, no, he was. I’m not really sure what the story is of how he got into punk but he was really into SNFU.
J: He used to have a three foot tall green Mohawk.
M: He did and he had braided OFFSPRING hair back in the nineties.
J: Leopard print shorts.
M: I mean anyone who’s seen us live in the last few years knows what Miller looks like, definitely. Hopefully laughing right now...
J: His wilder years are behind him, fashion-wise.
M: And yeah, this weekend actually he gave up his World Trade centre sneakers.
World Trade Centre sneakers?
M: Oh yeah he’s got these awesome Jamaican coloured red, green, yellow and white sneakers that I don’t know where he got them on tour.
J: He got them at Adrift.
M: Oh, he got them at Adrift. Yeah, yeah and they’ve got this stencil of the World Trade Centre.
J: It’s not a stencil, it’s a full photo.
M: However it’s been applied to the leather, it’s beautiful and they weigh two kilos each. Anyways so, he moved to Ottawa. We were between bass players and I knew he would enjoy it as much as we would enjoy being in the band with him and even though it’s been a little bit rough having a bass player that lives five hours away, I think there is, in all seriousness, a really amazing chemistry between all of us in the band and so...even though it can be frustrating sometimes that we’re not always available to play local shows and do all the things we want to...when we go on the road it’s just non-stop laughing.
Even today when you guys were setting up it seemed like it was just jokes you know. It’s good. I mean that atmosphere. You know, being on tour is grating, especially at the best of times right? And I can see how you guys alleviate that by….
M: ...being idiots.
J: Well there’s no pressure so.
D: It helps musically too like Miller’s given me some pointers on the drums over the years which I’ve taken to heart. He’s got a few signature moves that he shared with me to make the band that much better.
He seems like a well-rounded musician you know, the way he was even picking up the guitar there.
D: Oh yeah.
So yeah, what are some of the obstacles though? Having a guy in another city. It’s got to be kind of frustrating. Let’s talk about the frustrating side of it.
J: Well I mean, we’ve been a band for a long time and part of that reason is we haven’t used up all our life, sort of in one go. I mean having Miller far way has forced us, in a way, to spread things apart greatly whether it’s recordings or shows or practicing. Its changed things that way you know. We may have been more ...well not necessarily more productive, we may have been too productive if we’d been in the same place at the same time. Everybody, Dave and I get together and practice and get easily excitable about a few songs and if Miller were here we might be playing a show every week and this way it allows us to take our time a little bit ... on the positive side. Sometimes it’s for better, sometimes it’s for worse but all in all it gives us a certain amount of breathing room for the band.
D: We don’t exactly blow our load.
All at once. Makes sense.
J: Plus I mean, everybody gets busy and it’s like, you can just blame it on the guy who lives in another city. If you can’t do the stuff.
M: Yeah, it’s a great way to get out of shows you don’t want to play.
D: Miller’s a great scapegoat.
J: We’re just not ready, he just can’t make it.
Very good. Okay we attempted to try and do this release thing. Let’s start again, the releases that you’ve had out, because at the beginning I think when you first started there was only a demo tape or, maybe not even.
M: Oh the first session we did? Yeah that was our first proper recording in any sort of studio. Like the demo we recorded in our drummer’s basement in like, 15 minutes.
So take us through a discography of CAREER SUICIDE.
J: Chronologically, like, release wise or recording wise?
Recording wise because I think it’s probably easier.
J: The demo and then...
That was in 2001?
J: 2001. Then my solo record..
No, it couldn’t have been in 2001 ‘cause you guys recorded in 2002. The summer probably, right?
J: No, we recorded in October or November of 2001.
M: Let’s not be technical, just go through the list.
J: The demo was first.
D: There were two demos, weren’t there?
J: Demo was first. We recorded for the Ugly Pop record. The Ugly Pop record took a long time to come out so we released a second demo, which was songs from the Ugly Pop record. Before the Ugly Pop record was actually released, came the 7” on Kangaroo records followed then by the “SARS” 7” and then the long awaited Ugly Pop LP came after that, so our second and third record came out and then our first record came out.
In different orders?
J: In different orders. So, I mean, I don’t know how much of a conscious direction the band was taking other than we sat down and were like oh yeah, you know it’s gonna go this way and this way. Step 2, step 3 then step 1. After that, came the JED WHITEY split, which was broken loaded by Simon again. He found JED WHITEY, pulled out the record and it had a cheeseburger and the thick 7” on the cover plugged into a super fuzz distortion pedal timed perfect. Right up our alley. Let’s work together.
M: What was Brandon from DIRECT CONTROL’s review of that record?
J: He scratched off the JED WHITEY side, drew a dick on person’s hand on the cover and vowed never to listen to their side. Obviously he’s not going to listen to it again. After JED WHITEY came the “Signals” record, which was a single on Slasher followed by “Invisible Eyes” which coincided with our tour of Japan. Yannick of Feral Ward helped set up that tour with us and...
He released something, didn’t he?
J: Yeah, he released “Invisible Eyes”, coincided with our tour of Japan was ‘cause we managed to play shows in the States with FORWARD which is sort of how we got our foot in the door with going over there. “Invisible Eyes”.
So you met FORWARD here before going over there?
M: We almost didn’t. The border guards didn’t want to let us in.
Oh yeah?
M: But yeah, but we made it and we played three shows with them in the States. The first we barely made it on time because we got held up at the border.
Was it out west or...?
M: Philadelphia was our first show and we played in this like biker/motorcycle repair garage. It was like a hot humid July day. It was so sweaty. We played. It was us UPSTAB, FORWARD and somebody else.
M: CLOCKCLEANER yeah, it was so much fun. And they stayed with our friend Gabby in his wife’s house in Philadelphia and it was the first time we ever met Alana, his wife. We all slept on the floor and the guys from FORWARD, they all slept in their own room. We walk in there and they’re all perfectly folded up like you’d expect to see somebody in a coffin. Each of them laying with their heads on their leather jackets, like, snoring away and then as soon as they woke up they all started shaving their eyebrows and Mohawks and...
Getting ready...
M: Exactly.
M: But back to the discography...
J: That was like love at first sight for us and FORWARD, we’ve been on two tours with them since through Japan so, many happy hellos to them.
And they’ve taught you some Japanese, I understand, right?
J: Well the last one they taught us, they kept on, it wasn’t even them, it was these other guys in VIVISICK. They kept telling us to say the word “monko” before we went on.
D: “Monko”. That’s what it was. I couldn’t remember that.
J: We asked FORWARD what it meant, and they smiled and they held their fingers and their thumbs into a triangle and raised it above their heads and said “In the sky...” so we chanted and chanted, and I think a North American living in Japan came over and told us that we just told the crowd to lick pussy.
J: So, alright. Lick pussy Tokyo. After “Invisible Eyes” there was almost a couple of years, where that was right when Jesse stopped being our drummer. Right when Dave joined the band and we were getting him pulled into the fold and prior we had plans to do a recording for a full length with our friend from Virginia and did so. And that pretty much brings us up to date. After that it’s been pretty much show after show and there hasn’t been a release.
Well, there’s been a couple of anthologies right, like collections of the stuff and there’s been “Attempted Suicide”.
J: Right, that’s the LP that I’m referring to “Attempted Suicide” and actually, it would be a good time to announce we got a new record that’s going to come out.
Oh really?
J: Yeah, it’s about time. We got four new songs.
A 7”?
J: We’ll see.
M: Last I heard, it was going to be a 7” or a double 7” but maybe Jonah’s re-negotiated that contract.
D: Double single.
And who’s going to put that out?
J: We don’t know yet. It’s top secret.
M: Big surprise. It’s going to blow your mind.
You mentioned something about Brandon, he was in the band for a little while wasn’t he?
J: He actually played with us on and off. Brandon we met on the first tour of the States and, stayed with him and became friends.
Was he playing bass or drums?
J: No, no he played drums with us. He played second guitar with us a few times too. If there’s one thing CAREER SUICIDE has a problem with, aside from having a central line up, its’ like letting anybody else play at the same time. There’s been more than one fifth member I think...every now and then.
Okay. Um, I wanted to ask you about tours. Where have you been? I think you’ve been almost everywhere, haven’t you?
M: We’ve been to Europe twice, all over the States, Japan twice...
Okay, and where did you go first? Did you go to Europe first or?
M: Europe was the first tour in 2003.
And that was signed by Kangaroo?
M: Yes.
J: Didn’t we do the States before that?
M: Yeah, yeah...I guess we did a mini tour of the U.S. first.
...and that was with FORWARD?
M: No, no that was long before that. That was when we barely had a demo out. It was just sort of on a whim. Somebody asked us when we were coming to California and we were like California? Nobody even asks us to play in Toronto and we were like “Hey, maybe we should go on tour” and we did.
So did you go out West?
M: Yeah, we’ve been out West but not on that tour. First tour was just like the Mid-West.
Like Chicago and that?
M: Chicago and St. Louis.
St. Louis?
M: We went as far East as Boston on that one, I think.
That’s a pretty big range, yeah?
M: Yeah a lot of driving.
I would think yeah...Kansas City is far, or St. Louis is far. Missouri.
M: Misery in Missouri.
When was that in 2002?
M: Something like that 2002.
Where did you go next?
M: Then it was Europe. I mean keep in mind when CAREER SUICIDE goes on tour it’s not like a regular band where we’re going on the road for three months. When we go on the road it’s often for a weekend or a longer one would be ten days and I don’t think we’ve ever been on a tour that’s longer than two weeks. So, I mean, both times we’ve gone to Japan it’s been like ten days. Europe, two weeks each time.
You were telling me that you went to like Northern Europe, like Scandinavia and Denmark I think?
M: Yeah, the first time we went on tour the furthest North we went was Copenhagen and then the last European tour in 2006...
But you didn’t stay in the Peninsula then. You went to Copenhagen and then you came to the continent or something?
M:Well I mean it’s still on the continent but then after Copenhagen the next show is probably somewhere in Germany and then the last time we played three shows in Sweden.
J: Basically, we’ve been lucky enough on every tour to have gone somewhere we hadn’t gone the previous time and we would happily and successfully return to the places we have been. There was one summer where we played in Pittsburgh more times than a band from Pittsburgh would have played Pittsburgh and since then we just haven’t gone back. It’s been like three years.
D: My first show with the band was in Pittsburgh, and we’ve not gone back there since.
M: We’re going back there this June or July or whenever Ian Dickson’s birthday is.
D: Hopefully so.
What about memorable places. What was most memorable? Pick a memorable place that you played.
M: Los Angeles.
Tell us about it.
M: Los Angeles?
Yeah, what happened?
M: It was the first West Coast tour that we ever did and we were playing with CUT THE SHIT and THE RITES and the show just sort of came together. I can’t remember what the story was but it came together in some sort of bizarre way in which all three bands were on tour, all three bands needed a show and it just got brought together so they had no idea who should headline what the order should be? So we ended up doing it by coin toss. We ended up playing second I think, right after some band from Buffalo, SKATECORPS. Anyways I guess it might have been the first show of the tour?
J: Yeah, the very first.
M: So we’d never been to California before. It was like 2004 or 2005 and we had no idea what to expect and we had a really good reaction. We had a great time, played our set, we got off, the crowd were totally into it. We got off and CUT THE SHIT played. They got an okay reaction. THE RITES played, they got an okay reaction. They all seemed pretty excited to be playing last and as soon as their set was over, everybody kept cheering and chanting, so they probably thought they needed to play an encore. But as it turned out, what everyone was chanting was CAREER SUICIDE, CAREER SUICIDE, CAREER SUICIDE.
Oh wow.
M: So they brought us back up on stage and made us play again, and it was totally embarrassing.
J: We played a FANG cover and one of our own songs.
A FANG cover?
M: Yeah and the place just went insane and I still have the scar to prove it because, it was so hot that I took my shirt off and Jonah hit me in the back and blood was pouring out of my back and then I got a sunburn the next day on Laguna Beach so that sort of sealed the wound. Cauterized it.
M: Oh yeah, like Rambo.
Jonah, what was your most memorable show?
J: I’m going to shoot it over to Dave for now because he had this one on the tip of his tongue.
D: Definitely. On the last European tour we started things off in Amsterdam and we ended things off...
Does this involve transvestite bars?
D: Oddly enough, it doesn’t.
J: It involves that other thing that Holland is famous for.
D: Nazis!
D: One! Two! Three! Four!
What happened?
D: So we were in Utrecht. It was the last show of the tour. We were playing at a space that was not only used as a show space but also a bar and a practice space and we showed up and it turned out there was a group of fascists, or Nazis, or what have you that were practicing at the space. Four or five really large gentleman and we were inside just like sort of hanging out and some of the guys from SEEIN’ RED came up to us and were like “Just so you know, there are some Fascists here” and apparently something had happened the day before. Apparently a Nazi rally or something like that.
M: Well, it was insane though ‘cause there were, I don’t know maybe like, five or six of the skinheads and there were at least 200 people at this show and they were completely un-intimidated. They didn’t give a shit. There were five of them and 200 of us but...
D: Yeah, the guys from SEEIN RED regardless, they sort of warned us that there were some Fascists there and things were not really that happy.
M: We were scared.
J: I should also add though, there was a Nazi rally and the anti-fascists had broken it up so, these guys were looking for revenge and the SEEIN RED roadie comes up to us and says: “Yah, I just want to let you know that these guys they came here tonight actually specifically to fuck with you guys, because we broke up their rally. They came to screw with you so keep on a look out”.
D: Essentially that sets the stage. So we get up on stage and we go into a couple of songs and everything is going well and, I didn’t really notice it because I’m behind the kit and the next thing I know Jonah just stops playing and Noah stops playing and I look out and there’s this huge sea of people going everywhere. Just this way and that. It turns out the Nazis had charged their way through the door and just started beating the shit out of everybody. Somebody just smashed a chair over a friend’s head. Throwing pint glasses. There’s people bleeding and stuff like that. So they just came in. They did their thing and just bolted out of there. A lot of people were really upset about this but there wasn’t really anything done about it so a couple of guys who were there were like “Kick them out, kick them out, we have to fight the fascists”.
M: That was me.
D: No offence to the people there, but typical Dutch apathy. Everyone was like... “meh, fuck whatever, let them tire themselves out”.
J: Everyone is just standing around and these guys are wielding bats and chains.
D: Yeah, it’s like five guys versus this whole crowd of people and the Nazis are just like “What are you going to do about it?” and everybody’s just sort of standing around. Nobody’s really doing anything, but it cuts in the middle of our set and after a bunch of shouting, the Nazis, I don’t know if anybody kicked them out or if they just left.
J: I’m sure they were like “ah, you guys have had enough. We’ll go home. Sorry, our bad”.
D: After everything had happened we just went in and finished the rest of our set, but by the end of it, at the end of the night when everything was said and done, we were getting ready to leave and a couple of people came up to us and they were very concerned that there were a whole bunch of the fascists waiting outside to beat the shit out of us and that we shouldn’t go out to our van because there were fascists waiting in every dark corner and they were going to jump out and destroy us and mutilate us beyond recognition.
J: So consider like, the five of us and the people we were with. The crew of Dutch roadies run out of the place like that scene in Gallipoli where they all go over the top at the end. So like screaming running through the parking lot getting in this van, expecting...everybody’s shouting and screaming and running around in circles and we stop and look around the parking lot which is completely empty in the most perfectly silent calm night with clear skies and they weren’t waiting for us but..
So it’s a bit anti-climatic at the end.
J: Well I mean, who’s to say they weren’t right? Who’s to say we didn’t take them all on with our bare hands.
Still, it’s interesting to have a riot going on, or a near riot during your set.
D: You’ll be happy to know though Stephe, after our set though we did go in search of the transsexuals, so it does have a happy ending.
J: Especially for junior.
Was Henk with you?
D: Henk our fearless leader.
M: Well, you know what? Considering the crowd of people that we hang out with in Amsterdam, chances are that the reason those Nazis were probably after us is because Henk probably told them that we were from Israel or something. Honestly, I wouldn’t be surprised. I never saw a poster, but that’s probably what it said CAREER SUICIDE from Africa and Israel, come get some.
Here’s the bait.
D: That was, I think, the first major tour that I went on with CAREER SUICIDE so lots of things have happened before and since then but that was definitely one of the stories that stands out for me.
Jonah? Have you had time to...
J: Last night. Lee’s Palace, March 22nd 2008.
Every night’s a highlight.
J: A nervous but excited CAREER SUICIDE takes the stage for the first time since November. I flip that volume switch on and blacked out and woke up at the end of the set. It was the best night of my life.
D: He was fucking living man. He was living.
J: Every time we went to Japan, which is more than most bands can say, I can most sincerely say was a fantastic experience.
M: Jonah says that in a humble way.
No, I know he’s not bragging.
J: A little bit. I’m a little bit bragging.
But it was exciting right? It was something different.
J: It was great. Japan has a super rich and super unique history of the kind of music we play and we don’t exactly tune into that sound in what we play. I mean we all listen to it and we know about it but ...
Was it going to Japan or was it the bands that you played with?
J: It was a number of things right. I mean first of all, because we were friends with FORWARD we were plugged into a really real and really old scene that has like a lot of. I mean considering punk music right, has a lot of famous people still hanging around I mean the average age is much older and the amount of history, the amount of bands that has been produced over the years between the people we met and ...
Did you get introduced to a lot of those people?
M: There’s a reason why we don’t have our pinkie fingers anymore Stephe.
D: The great thing about the Japanese punk scene is that all the people that were in these bands in the eighties are all still involved. They’re all still in bands.
M: Or dead.
Or dead, yeah.
D: So there’s that aspect and second of all, not a lot of people get to go to Japan.
No, for sure.
J: On the back of you know, Martin didn’t get to go, we brought someone else. Eric sang.
D: We brought out Uncle Dougie.
J: It was the same time that “SARS” came out. We went to Japan and Eric sang and Martin stayed home because he quit to move to Ottawa to play bass in TRIPOD THE DOG.
M: That’s right.
J: Not a lot of people get to go to this country in the first place. Very far away.
And expensive, yeah.
J: And everybody thinks that Japan is like the most exotic wild place in the world and that it’s where you go to get your mind blown and we get to go for free a couple times and, not only that, but we don’t have to experience it at like a TGIFridays with the rest of the Western tourists it’s like we’re hanging out with people that most tourists wouldn’t even meet. It was very impacting and it sounds a little cheesy, but I took a lot from hanging out with those people and seeing them play their instruments and their attitudes to how they approach playing in a band period. So I really appreciate having been able to have gone there and that’s been a very lasting memory for me.
M: And your recent weight loss.
J: My recent weight loss.
D: Ah yes!
M: He was reminded on the second trip to Japan.(laughter)
J: There’s nothing to incur weight loss like humiliation en mass or being noticed.
What happened?
J: Because, the first time we went to Japan I was a little nervous.
Does this involve baby ‘T’s or?
J: Well, eventually. We went and we had a great tour. It was like a real surprise. We had a great tour and then when we went back, a little more confident than I should have been and I came in and I had my leather jacket on that I wore the first tour and I’m feeling pretty good. I had longer hair. Feeling a little cocky and the first thing everyone said was not “great to see you, or great show” it was “hmmm, you’ve put on weight. You look like Pig Champion”. And every city, the only observation was like “you got fat, like really fat”.
M: We were staying at Ishiya, the singer of FORWARD’s house and his girlfriend or wife or whatever, she had taken photos on the first tour and she took photos at our Tokyo show the second tour around and she’s showing me and she’s like “Oh, look at photos from before, when Jonah was young” year before.(laughter)
One year, wow.
M: And for anyone who doesn’t know, Jonah’s 25 now.
J: Like I said, a whole lot of maturity. You can age a lot in a year.
I’m sure.
J: There you go.
So, ah, who were some of the bands then, and people that you met?
D: Chelsea.
J: Chelsea from DEATHSIDE and PAINTBOX. We got to sort of spend the night hanging out with him. That was a pretty big deal. Ishiya and Souichi from FORWARD. Ishiya was of course in DEATHSIDE. Souichi was in GOURAN and INSANE YOUTH. The bass player of FORWARD was in SYSTEMATIC DEATH. The guys from the SLOW MOTIONS who were all in EVANCE and I think someone from the SLOW MOTIONS played in the line-up for THE STALIN. Guys from LIP CREAM, guys from OTTO, a guy from THE CUMS, from THE EXECUTE, and other bands like I’m sure WORLD BURNS TO DEATH can have like a better roster of cool people they met. We never met the guys from JUDGEMENT and we never played with CROW and we never played with ZOUO or whatever but...
It’s enough to make your head spin there...
D: We played a show in Hamamatsu and the bass player from G.I.S.M. was dancing, front of the stage for our entire set.
Wow, that’s crazy.
J: He was also wearing raver beads and had glow sticks in his mouth and he doesn’t look much different than he did then...
M: And he was at the rockabilly party afterwards.
J: That’s right hanging out with WARHEAD who came to hang out in Hamamatsu.
M: We had a dance party with WARHEAD.Swing dancing with the guys from WARHEAD.
J: The names may or may not mean a lot to you but if you listen to the music, it’s a nice thing and it’s nice to be able to at least have been privy to that context of music which is storied and fetishized over here. It’s nice to have been there.
J: We’re fucking pretty important, hands down.
M: Yeah, why not.
I don’t know, but you’ve been to quite a few places and I was wondering if you could share a few stories with us. That’s pretty much what I’m getting at.
M: This one time we played in Sudbury at a dance studio.
D: That was a killer show. We were top of our game.
M: This other time...
Do you want to do some lowlights?
J: Way too many.
M: We played at CIUT this morning, Sunday afternoon.
... and they didn’t even have an engineer.
M: Don’t worry about it.
D: Don’t need ‘em. Engineers not punk.
M: Wouldn’t happen in Japan, let me tell you.
Okay I want to ask you about, there’s this Youtube video going around with “Recipe for Disaster”, tell us about that. What is that?
M: There’s this guy, it’s actually night I couldn’t fall asleep and, somebody sent me this link to, I don’t really read blogs but somebody told me about this blog called Torontoist? And I happened to see Mike Long’s name who’s a guy that’s known from shows forever. For probably like the last 10 or 12 years and I clicked on it and it turned out his mom bought him a MacBook Pro or something and he makes a video of himself everyday dancing to some song in his I-tunes library with a video camera that’s built into the screen. Anyways, it was three in the morning and I was just like. I got to e-mail him and see what’s up with this and as a postscript wrote “When are you going to do a CAREER SUICIDE video” and he wrote me back like five minutes later and he’s just like “Aw, I love you guys like I’d love to do it, I’ll have it done tomorrow” and sure enough, the next day, there it was on Youtube.
It looks like it’s in a restaurant or something.
M: Yeah, I think that because it’s ‘Recipe for Disaster’. He did it in a kitchen. That’s the theme or...
But does he work in a kitchen or?
M: By the way, just before we move on. My father who is incredibly critical of absolutely everything I’ve ever done or do or will ever do in my life…one of the only compliments he sort of paid me in my entire life is somehow he found that video and he’s like..
“Recipe for Disaster” ?
M: Yeah, and he’s like “That guy has really cool shoes”. (laughter)
They do stand out.
M: Yeah.
I think they fit in with the cover of this.
M: They do.
With the cover of this…
M: Artistic genius.
J: It’s a rare colour…red.
D: Obviously he hasn’t seen Millers old kicks.
M: No.
No, no. Okay I wanted to ask you if there are any stories behind any of the songs on “Attempted Suicide”.
M: No.
M: None.
Okay. “Saving Face”, what’s that about?
M: “Saving Face”. Stephe let’s hear your interpretation. I mean I know the thing is ask us that golden question.
The Golden question?
J: The Stephe question.
J: What’s our favorite song.
Do you want to answer that question?
J: No. Of course not.
See, the thing is I might have asked it when we originally did this interview right. But back then there wasn’t releases, and there’s a lot of stuff now.
J: We should mention that this is the first record we’ve ever done that had lyrics in it. So it’s actually a viable question. At this point, if any of us have read the lyrics.
M: I don’t know them.
D: I’ve glanced at them.
M: See the nice thing about being in charge, and I know I’ve said this a bunch of times but it relates to today as well. The nice thing about being in charge of all the artwork for the records, I put all the artwork not that everyone else doesn’t have influence but I do all the layouts so I cut whatever I want so it’s been really easy for me to cut the lyrics out much the same way as today when I was both blessed and cursed with the opportunity to edit the radio session together. I got the opportunity to cut out whatever songs I fucked up so, that’s why “Bored, Bored, Bored” didn’t make it on to the recording.
Which you did record this afternoon.
M: Right, so basically Jonah twisted my arm and I can’t remember what he held over my head but “This time,” he said “you have to print the lyrics to this record.” So… I actually had to work a little bit more on them.
D: Now everybody knows.
So now that they’re in there, tell us about “Saving Face”.
M: I haven’t read them since.
Yeah, but you wrote them.
M: Yeah but did you listen to the radio session today, I don’t remember any of the words. It’s all *blahmlah*… gibberish.
I’m not asking for a line by line analysis but generally, what’s the song about?
M: You know I’m not even joking. I have no recollection.
J: Actually, I think I was going to, if you had asked me what my favorite song from a lyrical standpoint was I was actually going to say “Saving Face”.
Okay let’s. Sure, answer that question.
J: I was going to say “Saving Face”.
Why? Why do you like it?
J: It’s about two sides to your own decisions, I think. It’s about you react one way and someone takes it another way, you know. You think your making an important evaluative and educated choice but maybe it just looks like you’re saving your own ass.
M: Face.
J: Your face. “Saving Face”… is the name of the song.
Much of your lyrics are like that, they have more than one meaning…Is that the case?
M: Okay seriously yes. My personal preference in listening to music, especially from a lyrical perspective. I really like music or lyrics that are a little bit open ended or open to interpretation so the song can mean one thing to one person and something else to someone else.
Which is why people don’t want to talk about them in some cases right? But they do give us clues into some of the original intentions or the meanings. It gives people direction right? So that’s why.
J: I agree with that and as much as CAREER SUICIDE, this is going to sound funny because it’s going to sound like a criticism, but as much as CAREER SUICIDE is a band that doesn’t have any direction, not stylistically in the ‘go nowhere’ sense. I mean there’s not anything that you can tangibly associate CAREER SUICIDE with other than style. Like musical style so that’s part of the reason why I wanted to have lyrics printed. At least you can associate another part of the experience of listening to music with the band.
And I pull meaning from some of the lyrics. I think you’re a good writer and I’m curious to know what some of the songs are really about. Because I’m sitting here wondering, what are they about. Anyways, do you have a favorite song from a lyrical standpoint, Martin?
M: You know I’m going to answer it in a roundabout way. I have a song from a lyrical perspective that I enjoy singing the most.
Okay, what’s that?
M: “The Last Say” and that maybe the most blunt song on there too so it kinda flies in the face of what I just said. So from a listener perspective it’s probably the song I would like lyrically the least but I don’t know. For some reason it’s really straight forward and I really like it.
What’s it about?
M: That one in a way could be the title track for the record. I mean that’s the one song that is actually about suicide and attempting suicide.
J: Metaphorically or literally?
M: Literally, quite literally yes. Read the lyrics it’ll blow your mind now that you know what it’s about.
J: To speak to the same, the other side of the whole like no dimension no direction kinda, it’s also kinda imposing for a band to force you to only experience their music and a lot of people would reach for the lyrics as much as they would reach for the music or reach more for the lyrics then they would the music so in this case, what we’ve been doing for the past six years is strictly imposing what our thoughts on how what our punk band should sound on everybody and, people react one way or they react the other way. So there’s two sides to that coin, as there is with all the other coins in the world.
Not imposing though, I think people are inspired. I wouldn’t say imposing.
M: Well inspired by the not knowing.
No, I think you guys write good music and people love it and then they want to be like you in some ways. I mean there’s countless bands who I’ve had come in here who cite CAREER SUICIDE as an influence. Countless.
J: Oh, that’s great to hear.
There are loads of bands from all kinds of places that I’ve had come in here and, you know when the questions come up about influences, CAREER SUICIDE come up. Often.
J: I see that our imposition worked.
I don’t think that you’re imposing anything. I think you’re playing music you like.
J: No, I agree. I mean it’s not conscious. It’s not a philosophical in anyway but it’s just, coincidental that if you want to pick apart lyrics versus no lyrics it’s like kind of totalitarian, in a way. It’s like no you can’t have the words, here’s music and music only. I actually think that the music over matter kinda resonated a lot with what’s happening in hardcore right now. Not to say that we are substance less.
In fact I think I would argue the exact opposite but I think with the ambiguity that you’re talking about Martin it does give a lot of people the ability to agree with some of the things that you’re saying like “Oh yeah that”. Like they can apply it to their own life without having that sort of imposition that Jonah is talking about, right? So, the ambiguity allows people to be able to apply it to their life and just sort of take hold of the song and just really get into it. It becomes part of you, right? And I don’t think it’s by design. I’m not saying it’s by design. I don’t think you guys are you know… but you do capture what people go through.
M: Well let’s be honest I mean and they’ll be differing opinions about this but punk rock is an emotional style of music you know. It’s not necessarily an intellectual kind of music. Not that intelligent people can’t play and be interested in punk but I mean you even look at bands like the CLASH. They were a political band but they’re a headline band. They’re not a band that necessarily understood deeply any issues the way that a subject matter expert would, but still they evoked that emotion, and that’s why it was powerful and I think that at least I’d like to hope that we do a good job with that and I do a decent job with that with the lyrics. That even though I may not be very specific about what subject I’m singing about or that there’s an exact topic about it. It does evoke an emotion, or whatever my emotion is on whatever it means to me comes through and whoever’s listening to it can interpret that and they can take the song to mean whatever the hell they want but that emotion is being conveyed. I just got a text message from Mark Rodenhizer begging us to stop talking about this so.
J: Okay.
D: Thank you Mark, thank you. *pffft * that’s for you buddy.
Dave do you have a favourite song from a lyrical standpoint.
D: Actually I do have, from the lyrics that I know. I do have a favourite song from a lyrical standpoint and it just happens to be “The Last Say”. But I will say that the reason why I am choosing that song is because A) it stuck with me and B) also because it stood out because after reading all of Martin’s lyrics, though I think all the lyrics on the “Attempted Suicide” album are really good. They’re not exactly you know straight forward hardcore lyrics. That’s the one that sort of sticks with me and I remember just because it’s so straightforward. I think it carries a really good message with it. Because of that, you know, we were talking about how some lyrics might not, you know, they’re open for interpretation and everything. I think the message with that is the most straightforward and I think maybe that’s why it sort of stuck with my memory. And also, I just like the way it’s worded and everything like that.
J: Can I just say that for a band that has not had lyrics printed for six years who the hell would have thought we’d be talking about our lyrics on the air for more than five seconds.
Okay, Well I do want to..
M: *laughter* Next question.
No, I want to…it’s a related question I want to play word association with you, Martin.
J: Alright.
Because I mean, the way that “The Last Say”, you say is about suicide so tell me, just one word answers…ah… “You Got Caught”.
M: Hot Dog.
Hot Dog? Okay…Hot Dog?
M: Hot Dog. Sorry that was two words, my fault. Pizza.
Food? Junk Food?
M: Sure.
No…But in seriousness, what is it about, what is it about? You Got Caught, Hot Dog?
M: You’re saying word association.
Roughly, give me a little bit more than that little of a clue, I don’t get it.
M: Spicy Italian sausauge with relish mustard saurkraut.
D: Masturbation.
What is it about?
M: What song?
“You Got Caught”.
D: “You Got Caught”.
M: Getting caught.
D: Masturbation.
D: It’s about when…
M: Dave, you know I confided this to you on tour. I was drunk. I asked you not to tell anybody.
D: It was when our dear friend Brandon Ferrel was caught spanking it by his parents.
And that became a song that you wrote about?
M: That’s correct, yes.
M: Slurpee.
M: Slurpee.
Is it all going to be junk food?
M: Cherry slurpee.
What is it about?
M: Seven Eleven
What is it about?
D: Emus?
D: Sure, …I think.
Is this word association of the absurd ?
M: I don’t know, it’s your game. I asked if there’s a psychologist in the house.
D: We’re just going on with the program Stephe.
J: Wait, I just heard a beep. What does Mark say about this ?
“Out of the Fray”.
M: Mark says my favourite song is “Quarantine” because it’s geographical and funny and mildly racist.
D: Thank you Mark for that input on the subject. Maybe we should start talking about pizza.
M: I think you’ve reached our seriousness quota.
Okay because we started off talking about “Recipe for Disaster” does that have a context to it?
M: Gourmet Salami.
D: Schwartz’s.
No no but when I think of that I think of the UNION OF URANUS record, “Disaster by Design”.
M: No offense to any members of UNION OF URANUS but, definitely not an influence.
No, but what’s it about?
M: “Recipe for Disaster” ?
Is it something that happened in the scene, is it something that happened?
M: You know what, I have a vague recollection of writing that song.
J: It sounds pretty cautionary to me…
D: It’s about when Farkas got kicked out of cooking school.
(laughter) Okay.
M: I wish.
D: Master of the culinary arts.
Okay I’m going to move on Dave, you started a label called Sewercide.
D: I did!
What have you released to date?
D: Well, technically it’s only one. There’s a friend’s band from Nova Scotia called CRIMINAL INTENT. They’re still an active band though they’re sort of going through some troubles with getting out and touring and getting out of the Maritimes but ...
They are playing in Winnipeg at the Rip It Up fest?
D: They are not playing in Winnipeg anymore.
Okay, I’ll cross that off.
D: And the tour that they had planned to go out to Winnipeg and back has been cancelled for the time being. The main reason I started the label was because being from Nova Scotia and growing up in the punk scene or lack thereof. I’m very in touch with what’s going on there in terms of underground punk and hardcore music.
So you have some connection to this EPISODE release right ?
D: Yes.
Are they from there?
D: EPISODE are not. EPISODE are actually from Memphis I believe.
M: Close.
D: Close? Nashville?
D: Nashville. Oh yeah? Right on. Same fucking thing.
They’re going to be adopted by the Maritimes soon.
D: Yeah, yeah, the reason why I started it is because I’m very close to what’s going on there in the past couple of years. There hasn’t been much to ...
So are you going to be putting out more stuff from out there?
D: Yes, I have a record coming out with a band from my home town actually. It’s going to be a two song single by a band called GENETIC ANGRY and ah, they’re a bunch of kids.
Yeah, we did a demo feature with them.
D: They’re a bunch of really cool kids. They’re not really going with anything that’s really hip or in. They’re just sort of playing music that they like. It’s a bunch of kids that listen to a lot of like BLACK SABBATH and they cite BLACK SABBATH and SOA influences so that should give you an idea.
A little bit about…
D: I want to just start doing these records because finally there was some bands that were coming out and I just thought here’s a couple of groups that exist and these are young people that don’t really have the means to put out a record themselves and it’s not really, it’s sort an effort to get them out there to get them to go on the road and tour but also just to document some of this on vinyl.
The same reasons why most people start up labels, right?
D: Exactly, but in the Maritimes it’s sort of a different story. There’s no records stores. There’s not a lot of kids that have turntables.
There’s no record pressing plants near there.
D: Yeah it’s just so, it’s much different from a lot of other places.
How did the EPISODE ep come together?
D: The EPISODE ep was kind of a one off deal. The EPISODE ep was released by the band. A few people contacted them about doing a future release.
Go ahead.
D: Farkas?
M: *lip smacking* Oh sorry.
D: Farkas?
It relates to the band because it’s extracurricular punk activities. I’m I just trying to figure out how else you guys are involved in the scene.
D: Okay, second pressing.
M: We don’t share any of the money that we make on tour with Dave so he has to subsidize himself in some way.
D: I have to make it some other way, but unfortunately selling punk records by unknown bands that nobody really…
What are the song titles on this record? I can’t figure it out.
D: EPISODE ? I don’t know.
You don’t know either?
D: I don’t know. It’s just Song 1, Song 2, Song 3, Song 4.
Okay. Jonah are you still playing in 15 bands?
J: No, I cut it down. It’s just two or three now.
Okay, who are you playing in now. Go ahead.
J: FUCKED UP, this band, and I’m doing another project called MAD MEN and it’s just a hardcore band.
Were you doing PINK EYE?
J: Oh yeah, PINK EYE but it’s a little dormant now.
Okay, nothing else?
J: Nothing really on the go. I’ve been recording. I’m starting to learn how to record.
M: Come on, what about your accordion playing for Pinecone?
J: I’ve appeared on some recordings.
When Italy wins the World Cup, like that’s ever going to happen.
J: That’s a big day. I was in New York City when they won. You know how many people were out on the streets in little Italy? None.
Are you serious?
J: Hardly anybody. There was like two flags.
Really???! Wow. Not here.
J: I was watching it in a French bar. There was one other Italian. He wore a pink shirt and a straw hat. Really obnoxious. He was going to get beat up.
You couldn’t walk in my neighborhood.
J: Why not.
It was insane with people.
J: Oh yeah probably well.
I missed your accordion playing, after all this time.
J: No one ever would miss that.
After all this time of “I’ll break out the accordion when they win”.
J: Actually for you I would. Estonia is also an accordion nation.
The other world cup story I remember is you talking about swimming at Joe Piccinini community centre and the World Cup was going on and Germany was playing and the lifeguard wanted to kick you out of the pool because…
J: It’s another case of hard life on the street.
And it was the only time you could use the slide because it wasn’t busy ‘cause most of the other people were off, out in the streets.
J: I think by slides you mean Food Stamps.
And you were like “This is great. I want to go down the slide” anyway.
J: Yeah world cup is a great time of year. It’s exciting for the nation that wins. “Combatte Vincci”.
Martin? What else are you doing outside of the band? Or is the band just it? LIBERACHI?
M: Oh no. I’ve got my solo project. Like we said Jonah Falco plays accordion and…
And French horn.
M: No, no, no just accordion and we’ve got a violinist now.
D: Don’t forget about our two-piece.
M: Oh yes and I also have a two-piece with Dave Brown it’s upside down guitar heavy metal, Drop D tuned, heavy mosh.
D: Demo coming soon, check it out.
M: In terms of upcoming stuff we...
Yeah let’s get to that because you do have some plans right?
M: Yes, yes. We played a new song tonight, or that we recorded earlier from the live session “Cherry Beach”.
Yeah, what’s that ? Is that about anything in particular?
M: Well CAREER SUICIDE is a very topical band, of course…
Of course, but Cherry Beach has a history right? With the cops taking homosexuals down there and beating the shit out of them and leaving them for dead.
M: Could be what the song is about. See the song is called Cherry Beach but the chorus is “I took a fairy to Cherry Beach”. Now does that mean that you took a ferry boat to Cherry Beach or did I take a fairy to Cherry Beach? You be the judge.
That’s one of the other histories of Cherry Beach…
D: Read between the lines. It’s all in there.
M: Just figure it out.
Oh that’s why you have everybody singing “I took a fairy”.
M: Yeah but did we take a boat or did we take a fairy? Who knows? Anyways so it’s a song we’ve been talking about writing for years. Finally got it done. And it’s going to be the title track on the next EP.
I can’t wait to see the artwork for that.
M: Just you wait, we’ll see if there are any clues in there.
J: It’s probably going to be red, white, and black like the rest of ‘em.
M: But Schizophrenic is doing a compilation that’s coming out which is in tribute to the “Yes L.A.” compilation and we were really drunk in October and he asked us if we’d do it and if we’d ever heard THE EYES cover of “Disneyland” and of course we had and Jonah and I got all excited and said you know, of course, we’ll do a cover.
J: It’s THE EYES actual song, so it’s not a cover.
M: We got Jonah’s dad to record a piano. Jonah’s dad is a professional pianist.
Yeah he is.
M: And he’s playing on his grand piano. He played a rendition that was our bedtrack. He played a rendition of THE EYES “Disneyland”. We recorded everything and he’s on top of it so we’re going to debut that tonight.
Oh wow.
M: Exclusive.
J: I think it’d be a good time to cue it, right now.
J: Almost.
What other covers do you do?
M: Covers? Oh we’ve done so many over the years.
Yeah, I’m sure.
D: Too Legit to Quit.
J: Okay I think we should. There’s a long list of covers. The worst, most hugest failure covers.
Go ahead.
J: “Motorbreath” by METALLICA.
M: But a valiant effort.
You guys kept on talking about that this afternoon.
J: Did we?
A little bit.
J: Oh yeah. What else was a failure of a cover? Well this could be categorized in the lowlights too. We played an entire set of covers in a basement in Mineapolis. We did “Pay to Cum”, “Aint No Feeble Bastard”, the CIRCLE JERKS and maybe one other song. Someone’s comment about our set that night was “Fuck you for making me waste fifteen minutes of my life. You don’t even have the decency to come to my town and give me something worthwhile to sit through. That was insulting…”
J: Affront to any sensibility. I had about music, go to hell I can’t believe you wasted my life.
That’s an odd reaction. I’m sure that’s the exception.
M: No that’s the usual response we get everywhere we go.
No. I’m sure it’s not.
D: That’s quite common.
J: I mean doing covers is pretty fun given the right circumstance, you know.
Yeah, for sure especially for the band and the crowd, as well.
M: After the first Japanese tour we got back to town and drove eight hours to Chicago and played Chicago Fest and the last song we played in that set was “I Just Want Some Skank” by the CIRCLE JERKS and that was perhaps the most fun cover, as far as I’m concerned. There was like 800 people in the room and three quarters of the room went nuts and stormed the stage while we were playing and just piled on top of us, tossing us around like ragdolls. It was amazing.
Wow. Oh okay. So tours ... because we don’t have much time now, you were talking about going away.
J: We’ve got some dates coming up in the States in May. We are going to Norway in June.
M: Going to the UK in August.
D: Spain.
Are you just going to Norway?
J: Yeah. We’re on a fest with BAD MANNERS and ENSLAVED co-headlining with those guys.
J: Yeah, that’s right.
BAD MANNERS? The ska band…
J: That’s the one.
Crazy. He’s in the Guiness Book of World Records for eating the most amount of Big Macs in one sitting.
D: What ?
J: That Michilen man guy?
Yeah, Fatty Buster Blood Vessel, the singer.
D: Jesus…
M: Well Jonah’s going to take him up on that…Don’t challenge him to an eating contest, my friend…
J: I will not challenge him to an eating contest.
I know you’re good but…
J: No I’m not. I’m bad.
D: That’s why we’re taking Mark Rodenhizer with us. We’re going to fucking beat him down.
Your secret weapon.
J: We’re not taking Mark Rodenhizer with us.
The record that you’re doing is going to be coming out soon?
J: It should come out to coincide with wherever we go in the summer whenever we go in August to the UK it’s just a matter of getting it on tape.
Okay so, this is one of those songs right?
J: What is this?
M: No this song is coming out on a Schizophrenic compilation that’s coming out in the near future. It’s a cover of THE EYES “Disneyland”.
Oh, okay this is the Schizophrenic song. Well I think that brings us to the end of the show thank you for indulging me with my stupid questions.

A big thanks to Leah Archambault who transcribed all of this.

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